For Gays in the Military, Obama’s Good Intentions Not Enough
By Aubrey Sarvis
Huffington Post
May 24, 2009
Sunday morning on ABC's This Week, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told George Stephanopoulos that they'd been talking about "don't ask, don't tell" in the Pentagon. Admiral Mullen said, "The President has made his strategic intent very clear. . . . I've had discussions with the Joint Chiefs about this. I've done certainly a lot of internal, immediate staff discussions about what the issues would be and . . . ."
Sounds like a plan? No, it doesn't, and without a strong push from the White House, it won't be. Nonetheless, it does show considerable progress from last Tuesday when the Pentagon's press secretary Geoff Morrell (a deputy assistant secretary of defense and Secretary Gates's personal spokesman as well as another holdover from the Bush Administration) was still spouting the old message at Tuesday's Pentagon briefing: "no internal planning efforts underway in anticipation of a change in that [DADT] law," and so on. Business as usual. As to his attitude, here's the video. You can judge for yourself. (The DADT discussion begins about eight minutes in.)
The White House changed his mind, however, and Morrell, who said Secretary Gates believed his Tuesday comments had been "mischaracterized," asked him to release a "statement of clarification," something like what Catholics might call an act of contrition. Fox News reported that Morrell gave it to a few Pentagon reporters Thursday night and to the rest of the world Friday morning.
At the White House briefing the day before (around the time Morrell first released his "clarification"), in response to a question by Ana Marie Cox, Obama's press secretary Robert Gibbs said he believed "the Pentagon did correct that statement on efforts regarding . . . 'don't ask, don't tell.'" Well, if they hadn't done it before, they got right on the case and it was done that night.
And Chairman Mullen did make it clear on This Week that he knew what the President wanted to accomplish with respect to repealing DADT. "The President has made his strategic intent very clear," he said. "That it's his intent at some point in time to ask Congress to change the law."
"At some point in time . . . " Now what do you suppose that means? Time is a pretty nebulous notion, and there are an infinite number of points in it. I'd like to know what particular point in time Admiral Mullen and the other deciders at the Pentagon have in mind. This month? This year? Next year? This term? Next term? Somehow, Admiral Mullen didn't convey a sense of urgency to it.
Stephanopoulos reminded him that one of his predecessors, General John Shalikashvili, who was chairman in the early '90s, now says he believes "if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces. Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."
George asked, "Is he right?"
"He's certainly entitled to his own personal opinion," Admiral Mullen replied, quickly adding "And certainly, I have the greatest respect for him." Hardly a ringing endorsement. In the next sentence he noted, "There are also lots of retired generals and admirals on the other side." I can see Elaine Donnelly now, exchanging high fives for the gratuitous plug with her crew of aging flag officers that Admiral Mullen referred to.
If you review Admiral Mullen's brief, it sounds like he learned a lesson from his immediate boss, Secretary Gates, who famously said, "Let's kick that one down the road a little bit." It also sounds like Admiral Mullen took a leaf from Martin Luther King, Jr., and Mahatma Gandhi. Passive resistance. That seems a bit odd coming from a Bush appointee who would like to be reappointed to another term as Chairman of the JCS when his term expires in October.
I'm all for a "measured, deliberate" path, as Admiral Mullen put it, but at some point the White House has to have a plan to get repeal through this Congress. We have to get beyond mere intent. "Intent" is not a plan and it isn't action and so far President Obama hasn't asked Congress to change the law. The President sent his Defense Department budget up to Congress a couple weeks ago and there was no repeal language in it. That budget will be working its way through Congress over the next several months. There's still time to fix it.
What we don't need is yet another study or national commission to look at repeal. We all know those commissions involve delay and more delay and "kicking it down the road" more that a little bit. I say, put together a working group within 30 days. Have them focus on implementing open service and charge them to report back to the President within 90 days with a detailed plan and a timeline and how to get it done in this Congress.
Good intentions and warm handwritten notes from the President will not carry the day. They certainly did not save the career of Lieutenant Sandy Tsao who was scheduled for discharge last week. The Arabic speaking Lieutenant Dan Choi is now at risk of being discharged. Sign his petition. Urge Air Force Secretary Michael B. Donley to allow Lieutenant Colonel Victor Fehrenbach to keep flying. Sign the petition here. Hundreds more service members will be discharged over the next few months unless Congress and the President, and, yes, the Pentagon act.
Good intentions are no substitute for the change our service members are counting on, especially those who might like to be relieved from a third or fourth or fifth tour in Iraq or Afghanistan. They really don't care much if the person who relieves them is gay. Would you?
05-25-09 By Aubrey Sarvis, SLDN Executive Director |
50 Comments
Comments for this entry are closed.Jake in Iraq on June 09, 2009 at 05.03 am
A in San Fran and Martina- thank you for all the kind words and thoughts, and for holding up the home front. I will be back stateside soon to help out where and when I can.
Lance bro- keep your head up, kick complacency in the balls, and make it home safe.
Tom- having a paper jam in your printer, running out of staples, or not being able to connect to the internet is not the worse situation you could be in for your country. I know it’s very scary to be in one of these situations, but it’s ok. You can fix them yourself. Most printers these days tell you where the jam is, but be careful don’t just throw your hand in there like it’s your McDonalds Happy meal, some of the printers get real hot inside them. You know where the “Magic! “happens, where the printer put the words on the paper. For the stapler problems you may face, if you pull the stapler open (don’t pull a muscle) you can put more in, pointy side down. Not being able to connect to the internet well … there could be many, many reasons for that situation. I suggest you go find a Fifth grader to help you out with that one (peu-ters are so tricky sometimes). Well hopefully I have listed some helpful tips to help you out of situations that make you feel like you will just DIE!!!DIE!!!DIE!!! Oh and I am being facetious just in case you didn’t catch on.
Another great day in Iraq.
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 07.36 pm
M-
The same thing occurred to me…
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 07.35 pm
Martina- I give you credit for trying and I feel where you are coming from. I also wish that we were capable of helping others see how their hatred harms everything around them, even the things that they themselves hold dear. As an idealist myself, I really respect that you came in here with such a level-headed and inclusive approach to dealing with Tom’s hatred. It speaks volumes about your character. Ultimately, it is not our failure, it is Tom’s. I guess we can now move on to the next objective with a clear conscience.
Lance and Jake, I only wish I could be there with you guys. I am pissed off about it and am doing everything I can to open those doors back up to me. Thanks again for being dependable and willing to do the job.
Martina on June 08, 2009 at 07.28 pm
So, my question is: if Tom is SO anti-gay and pro DADT policy then why is he on the SDLN website which advocates for gay service members and ending the DADT policy? Hmmmmm…....
Lance in Iraq on June 08, 2009 at 07.26 pm
That is just too fitting that someone with such outdated ideas is stationed at the base with the AirForce museum. Makes complete sense. They finally have assignments worked out right. Funnier than that is that I know someone stationed there which happens to be gay so I know for a fact that there are “fagets” around you….. better watch your butt before the big bad gay man shows your lazy ass up at work.
As for me, I’ve had fun reading and writting on this thread but there is too much to get done today. Now if only Tom would do some work instead of concentrating on hatred. Good luck in the museum tom.
Martina in Indiana on June 08, 2009 at 07.20 pm
A in San Fran - You have to give me credit for trying :-) But I agree with you and I give up. Tom is most probably working with only half a brain (at best) so he can’t understand and does not have the capacity for empathy. I pity people like that because they are missing out on knowing great people in this world and truly experiencing diversity because they are either afraid or just plain stupid! I wonder if Tom will get out of the military WHEN they end the DADT policy? I hope so because it will only make the military better!
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 07.12 pm
M- Good post, we typed them up at the same time. Keep on keepin’ on…
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 07.10 pm
And there you have it folks…
Martina, all fun and games aside, asking Tom to provide you with a logical, thoughtful, and intelligent reason as to why homosexuals should not be allowed to serve in the military is like your dog to do your calculus homework. He might tilt his head and look like he is trying to understand, but in the end he’s just going to drool on it.
Tom gave you his reason in his last post. He HATES “fagets”. That is it. Your effort to sway him to your point of view is never going to work, which is why instead of debating him and giving his arguments the semblance of credibility, he should be chastised and made to know that his blatant and malignant hatred will not be tolerated. Furthermore, the fact that he is willing to denigrate the service of servicemembers who are currently in theater in the name of his hate is a signal of his lack of character and in keeping with the malformed traditions of racists, homophobes, wife-beaters, etc. the world over. I won’t stand for it.
And on this ridiculous thing we call the internet, the chances of having some kind of a sea-change happen in Tom’s mind as to the acceptance of homosexual servicemembers is not going to happen. Thank you for the work you do, but this fish is bound to get off the hook.
Martina in Indiana on June 08, 2009 at 07.07 pm
Tom ~ Wow! I was in the Air Force, which it seems you are as well since you are at Wright Pat and I have to say I can’t recall serving with anyone as simple minded and ignorant to others needs as you are. I gave you REAL and accurate information about the plight of GLB people in the military and you ignored it (maybe because it was above your reading level) and you resorted back to name calling and caveman like language. Please note “I’ve been in worst situations” is not the appropriate use of “worst” it should be “worse.” And being an Air Force person myself, I KNOW that the other branches serve in much harsher situations than MOST Air Force members and AF folks do NOT serve for a year or longer in OEF or OIF so your reference to serving in WORSE situations is inaccurate as well. I hope that some day your eyes are open and you have more empathy for others. I hope that maybe one of your children is gay. I can BET you that your best friend in the military, supervisor, commander, Dr, etc may very well be gay. The person in the military that you look up to and want to be just like, may very well be gay. I hope that one day you can feel the discrimination and hear the negative comments that people say ABOUT you and you can’t defend yourself since that seems to be the only way you will understand - or hey, I have an idea - take some classes - get an education and that might open your eyes to what others go through. It does seem that those that are the most ignorant are the most close minded. AND please note it is not only GUYS who serve in Iraq - females serve as well.
Tom in WPAFB on June 08, 2009 at 06.48 pm
martina in Indiana
I don’t have a problem with fagets being in the military. I care if they go around talking about it.
“This is about don’t ask don’t tell”.
As for serving in Iraq (great job guys), but trust me I’ve been in worst situations for my country.
martina in Indiana on June 08, 2009 at 05.33 pm
Do you realize that while we have been posting here in the past couple of days 4 more honorable professional military people have been discharged soley because of their sexual orientation!
martina in Indiana on June 08, 2009 at 04.00 pm
Tom ~ Instead of making snide comments to others who post here (and by the way serve in Iraq), I would like to have an intelligent conversation with you about my posts. Please read them and let me know AFTER you read them what is your logical, thoughtful and intelligent reason against having gay people in the military.
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 03.58 pm
Tom-
Here is a detail you missed:
You are an idiot. Stop posting unless you have something useful to contribute to the discussion.
Have the best day ever.
Tom in WPAFB on June 08, 2009 at 03.56 pm
Jake in Iraq
Hope you don’t let out your little dirty secret.
In Iraq they will hang you for that!!!
Lance in Iraq on June 08, 2009 at 01.03 pm
A in San Fran, It’s all good, everyone has a right to their opinion so I can’t get mad about other people voicing theirs.
Kris, thanks for the update about the canadian troop. The one thing I was worried about was someone acting flamboyant in uniform. Professionalisn is one of the things that keeps our military strong. I don’t want to fly around screaming my sexual preference, I just want to go to work knowing that what I do matters more than my sexual preference and if people found out, they wouldn’t throw my past and future service down like it was nothing.
Kris in Oklahoma on June 08, 2009 at 11.39 am
First off, Martina, thanks so much for the work you’re doing for us.
I just want to pose an argument that because of my sexual orientation I am at an advantage in my ability to serve in climate of today’s fight. In today’s war(s) one of the best tools we have at our disposal are our capabilities of deception that we regularly use on our enemies. By staying in the closet throughout my 4 years in college and time in the military (yes, even to my BEST friends and roommates) as much as I hate to say it, I’m a master of deception. I’ve learned how to put the mission before my personal feelings and personal life better than the best tech schools can hope to teach their troops. Very few homosexuals jump out of the closet as soon as they think they might be attracted to the same sex, and go through what I have. I would venture to say that during this transition period they learn some invaluable lessons about themselves and others. Why loose such a valuable asset, or force it to stay repressed?
As for the comments that I hear about people acting flamboyant; I’m frankly not a fan of it in the mil or civ sectors. Nothing makes a person act that way except for the desire for attention. After talking to an NCO in the Canadian Air Force, he was telling me about a younger, flamboyant troop who was under his command who he pulled into his office and had a private discussion with. “Why do you feel the need to act this way in the work place? Everybody already knows you’re gay. Lock it up and act professionally while you’re in this uniform and in the office.” All it took was one discussion, and there was never “problem.”
A in San Francisco on June 08, 2009 at 11.32 am
Jake and Lance-
Thank you for your service. Don’t worry about this fight too much, we got your back CONUS. Stay safe.
Martina in Indiana on June 07, 2009 at 09.18 pm
Lance in Iraq ~ First I want to thank you for serving and sacrificing so much more than heterosexual military people like myself. Gay and lesbian service members sacrifice their personal lives in a way that heterosexuals are not asked to. You don’t get to brag about the pictures or love letters you got from your partner like heterosexuals do when we are deployed. You quietly serve your country at GREAT sacrifices. I sometimes wonder how the military would adapt if EVERY gay person went to their commander at the same time and said “I am gay.” The military would have a serious staffing problem if that ever happened! Yes, our great military is sadly behind in ending the DADT policy and I try and wrack my brain to find one solid logical reason why people might be against allowing gay people to serve and I just can’t think of one rational reason - especially a reason that hasn’t been disproven over and over by other countries or research by the Palm Center, HRC or Rand - all are researchers who have found that MOST military people could care less if gay people served openly and MOST military know someone in their unit or company that is gay and could care less and in other countries unit cohesion(which is the reason I hear over and over) doesn’t go down at all when people are allowed to serve openly in the military. I wish there was something we could say or do to let heterosexuals that favor the DADT understand what it is like to be able to DIE for your country but not really be accepted by the very unit that you are giving your LIFE for!
Lance in Iraq on June 07, 2009 at 08.22 pm
“23 other countries allow gay soldiers to serve with NO incident and no decrease in unit morale or discipline?”
Apparently we are behind in a few things.I just don’t get how everyone knows how barbaric it is yet we still have it. There are just so many reasons against the policy of hate and ignorance and the only reason they want to keep it is fear of what they don’t know or understand. People for the policy act as if gay people are going to be throwing themselves at straights. There are two main things against that though. For one, we just want to be judged by our work and not fired for the lame ass reason everyone is being let go for. Secondly, why the hell do they think they look that damn good to where anyone would throw themselves at them? Really, get over yourselves.
martina in Indiana on June 07, 2009 at 04.03 pm
Tom ~ I am not going to berate you or tell you that you are ignorant for your beliefs. Being in the military for many years, I didn’t have the opportunity to know or understand the GLB culture or to understand that our gay soldiers sacrifice so much more than we do. I took a multicultural class in my masters program and I was asked what culture I had the most problem with, the least knowledge, etc. I chose GLBT folks since I never really had the opportunity to get to know someone who was gay since I was in the military and for the most part the military treats people of color equal. I had to immerse myself in the GLBT culture for the whole semester. At first I was worried “what if someone I know in the military sees me, I might get kicked out.” I went to support groups, pride parades, took special training and education to learn about the discrimination of GLBT people and to learn everything I possibly could. I later went on to write my dissertation on social support of GLB people. I know how you feel and where you are coming from and others who think like you (because I once thought like you - sort of). It is really a matter of having empathy and truly understanding that people are people and someones sexual orientation does NOT define who they are. Just because you serve with someone who is gay does NOT mean they are going to hit on you - heck they probably aren’t even attracted to you! But even if they were, do you hit on every female in the military that you think is attractive? Of course not (or at least I hope not). Is it fait that a gay person can’t get medical care for their partner like everyone else who serves? Did you know when females were first allowed to serve, their families couldn’t get medical care - only the males who served were afforded this benefit? That seems ridiculous now, doesn’t it? It is the same for gay service members - it is ridiculous that they can’t serve openly. Being gay doesn’t have anything to do with honor or integrity or professionalism. Did you know that the word “Homosexual” was only introduced as a reason not to allow folks to serve around WWII? Before that it said “sodomy” and the reason for that was because many years ago, soldiers would sodomize armies that they defeated and the US thought if you beta the other army there was not reason to add insult to injury. Did you know that over 23 other countries allow gay soldiers to serve with NO incident and no decrease in unit morale or discipline? I always thought our military was the best because we did stop segregation (Executive order 9981) before the rest our of country and we made accomodations for this (the DoD schools were a result of this). Now our military is behind the rest of the country - the rest of the country (even the FBI and CIA allow gay people to serve - and they didn’t in the past) are less prejudice than the military in thie respect. I would honestly like for you to give me a good argument as to why gay people shouldn’t be able to serve openly. I think if you really searched your heart and thought logically about this, you would have a change of heart. I think that Jake in Iraq should be able to have a picture of his partner in his helmet for comfort and support, I think his partner and their children should be able to use the commisary, BX and all of the other benefits afforded our soldiers and their families. Could this DADT policy be a way of saving money for the government by not allowing families of gay soldiers health care etc like they did when women who first allowed to serve? It just doesn’t seem fair, does it? Sorry all - I didn’t mean to write a book but I am passionate about this and want to do whatever I can to help in this fight to end the DADT policy.
martina on June 07, 2009 at 03.45 pm
To Jake in Iraq:
I want to thank you for serving our great country Jake. I served 20 years and I am proud to call you my brother-n-arms. Although I sacrificed and served you are making a greater sacrifice than either me or our heterosexual counterparts. You are sacrificing the partner you love or the partner you would like to love but can’t because of the DADT policy. You sacrifice much more of yourself and personally than all of the heterosexuals in the military. You can’t take your partner to unit picnics or get togethers, you can’t post a picture of the person you love on your laptop or in your cubicle for support, you can’t even have your partner go to family readiness group meetings so they can get support while you are serving in Iraq or come to see you in the hospitall if you are hurt since only “family” can visit. I salute you for the huge personal sacrifice you are making and I hope that one day I can stop by your cubicle and ask about how you and your partner are doing or what you did last week-end and you will be able to share with me like our heterosexual comrades can and do.
Jake in Iraq on June 07, 2009 at 03.25 pm
A in San Fran YOUROCK DUDE!!! You are my hero.
Tom – I don’t know why I even tried. When I get online after my long day on mission doing patrols in Baghdad, I get so frustrated how ignorant people like you are. I put my life on the line here in Iraq for the past eleven months, and have been doing my job every day for the past eight years. I love the fact that I put my life on the line to allow you, and people like you the freedom to be so ignorant. Dude no matter how creepy you may think I am. I’m still in Iraq doing my duty as a soldier, and serving my country as an American without the freedom that every other American has (the freedom to do a job without discrimination). I do my duty with honor, integrity, and I respect everyone equally, no matter what walk of life they come from.
Good day from Iraq.
A in San Francisco on June 05, 2009 at 11.33 pm
Tom-
Nice try, but your last post actually made some attempt at plausibility. If you don’t know what my argument is by now, you need much more than I am able to give you. You are mental light years away from comprehension, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to help you un-**** yourself. Case closed.
Now go beat your face.
Tom in WPAFB on June 05, 2009 at 11.14 pm
A in San Francisco
quote from you….
“The reason you will not know that you are serving with gay and lesbian airmen is because they are more professional than you, and they keep their private lives private. “
Case closed keep it private. What is your argument?
Saddened in NC on June 05, 2009 at 09.04 pm
I am becoming highly impatient with the administration on this issue. People with civilian issues of misconduct concerning alcohol, attempted assault, and a litany of other issues are allowed to wear the uniform while anyone with a connection to homosexually is stripped of their humanity and drummed out out of the service is absurd. I helped numerous servicemen and women in a mental hospital of all places who were in their for drug issues…having used illegal narcotics as civilians. They were allowed to stay…I was removed from the service for an alleged homosexual act. Amusingly, SLDN was never once mentioned to me until I was back in civilian life. I owe the government 1.5 years of military service. I ask the President and the Congress for the chance to finish my commitment.
A in San Francisco on June 04, 2009 at 11.31 pm
Yes Tom, very good. You are beginning to learn the basics of argumentation! I’m proud of you.
Unfortunately for you, you have chosen to highlight the very point that weighs heavily on the side of sexuality having nothing to do with the ability to serve in the military. It’s called professionalism, remember? It is most undoubtedly a concept with which you are entirely unfamiliar, given your hateful and quasi-illiterate posts on this blog. The reason you will not know that you are serving with gay and lesbian airmen is because they are more professional than you, and they keep their private lives private.
Did you get that? I don’t think you did, so I’ll write it again, on its very own line so it’s easily discernible among all the text that is swirling around your brain right now:
Gay and Lesbian servicemembers are better at their jobs and in their service to their nation than you are. They do their jobs in spite of all the hatred spewed by misanthropic fools such as yourself, and never once say a thing about their sexual lives. They are the epitome of professionalism.
Please, by all means respond; I’m kind of cranky tonight and would like to continue smoking your sorry ass in front of all our interested readers. Or alternately, you could just STFU, get a drink of water and reflect on your bad behavior while you sit in the corner and think about all the harm you cause people in our world. Unlikely I know, but the cynic in me hasn’t won out just yet…
Tom in WPAFB on June 04, 2009 at 08.26 pm
A in San Francisco
quote
“Guess what? They already are, you just don’t know it, and likely will not know it. Ever”
That is the way we should keep it!!
Your word
A in San Francisco on June 04, 2009 at 07.28 pm
Tom-
Guess what? They already are, you just don’t know it, and likely will not know it. Ever. From this point on, I refuse to take anything you say seriously because you use poor grammar, and are seemingly unable to put together a sentence without spelling errors, let alone your scientifically unfounded, irrational, bigoted worldview. In my opinion you are a liability to your unit. I sincerely hope you are not in a position of great responsibility.
Martina- Great post. Tom has proven that he is more interested in his bigotry than learning anything. He is a dinosaur at the end of the Cretaceous, soon to be extinct.
Martina in Indiana on June 04, 2009 at 04.51 pm
I think we should try and sway Tom to understand why being gay has as much to do with a gay persons identity and being heterosexual has to do with a straight persons identity because this is the same old argument I keep hearing from people who don’t understand. I am a heterosexual, served 20 years in the military with gay and straight comrades. I didn’t come to work each morning talking about what I did in the bedroom with my partner the night before and neither would gay people if they could serve openly. Being gay OR straight doesn’t give you the heart and spine to serve our country, to willingly make the ultimate sacrifice and being gay or straight shouldn’t have ANYTHING to do with whether someone can serve (openly) or not. Let’s get back to raising the standards and allowing people with integrity, honor, physically fit and with NO felonies (such as rape) to serve in the best military in the world. It is not just gay people in the military that are being discriminated against and held down by the DADT policy. Females (like me) who serve are sometimes forces into sexual acts and if they say anything face the perpetrator accusing them (us) of being lesbian and then not only are we victimized by sexual assualt, we now have to prove we are heterosexual or face getting kicked out of the military. Do some reading about this and you will see just how often this happens today in the military. In Canada, they repealed the DADT policy and not only did sexual harassment from gay people NOT increase but sexual harassment and sexual assault of female military members decreased by over 40%. Again, let me say this loud and clear - as a heterosexual, my sexual preference had NOTHING to do with my integrity and honoring in serving for 20 years and sexual preference has NOTHING to do with a gay or lesbian person’s integrity, honor or fitness for service either.
TOM in WPAFB on June 04, 2009 at 01.34 pm
Jake the phsychologist comment:
“As a gay man I can look at another man and find him good looking but until I know he is gay as well, I have no sexual attraction to that good looking man.” Funny how it is only a sexual attraction!!
Creepy I wouldn’t want the physcho bunking next to me or being on a ship with me for six months.
The Kitchen Dispatch in California on May 31, 2009 at 01.34 pm
Lance—
RIGHT ON!
Lance in Iraq on May 31, 2009 at 12.58 pm
Seeing this thread, the only thing I can think of is the fact that sexuality has nothing to do with someones ability to do their job, and it rarely if ever comes up. If your really worried about it, maybe your just not working hard enough because I have zero time to think about anything but the mission. Thet is what your being paid for you know.
Jake in Iraq on May 31, 2009 at 07.00 am
Tom -
To answer your question. I will try not to loss you with too many complex thoughts. What makes a homosexual different from a heterosexual? Well let me start my saying sexual attraction and or behavior may not necessarily be consistent with identity. A homosexuals or a heterosexuals can determine there sexuality without having sex or have had any sexual experience. WOW… really its true! I have a degree in Psychology. That’s why sexual orientation develops throughout individual’s life time, a person can realize at any time that they are hetero, homo, or bi or vice versa. Some people even argue that the term “gay” is merely a cultural expression which reflects the current status of homosexuality within a given society. So one day we probably won’t need the terms Gay, Lesbian, or Bi-sexual at all. Even thou I am proud to call myself GAY. One more little tid-bit of information for you to ease your mind. As a gay man I can look at another man and find him good looking but until I know he is gay as well, I have no sexual attraction to that good looking man.
Here’s to your case closed!!!!!
Good day dude for Iraq.
The Kitchen Dispatch on May 30, 2009 at 03.31 pm
So while Tom is busy fighting gays in the military, I guess the real heroes will go and fight the Taliban.
Gay and straight.
Case closed.
A in San Francisco on May 30, 2009 at 12.12 pm
Tom-
What in the world does that have to do with the conversation we are having here?
A in San Francisco on May 30, 2009 at 12.11 pm
Kitchen Dispatch-
x 2. Outstanding post.
Tom in WPAFB on May 30, 2009 at 12.02 pm
Since I am have so much critism on here. I need to ask you a simple questions, doesn’t take much brain work. What separates a gay man from a straight man?
HIS SEXUAL PREFERENCE!!!!!
Case closed…......
The Kitchen Dispatch in California on May 29, 2009 at 06.23 pm
Tom,
The people who have been marginalized by the very mindset you exhibit are solid professionals with exemplary records. They have skills and educations much needed to fight the enemy.
They include not only a highly decorated fighter pilot but an Arabic translator. Don’t we need all of these people in the fight? It’s not like we can put an ad in Craigslist or on Monster to find one.
I find it ironic that the one time the government gets it right and spends money training someone they axe him. Compare this to the billions we gave to AIG and Wall Street and go nothing. Zip. Nada. All that money, and we get nothing in return but debt.
And all because of homophobia, and a political system that upholds it. Is our political system telling the American public that homosexuals are scarier than ....The Taliban? Radical Insurgents? Suicide bombers? People schooled in madrasses for the past twenty years and conditioned not only to disbelieve their own country’s history, but also believe that the west is the epitome of evil?
Give me a break. There are real villians out there and we need everyone to help us in the fight.
A in San Francisco on May 29, 2009 at 02.56 pm
Tom-
Your comment would be more aptly applied to straight relationships, seeing as the vast majority of exposure to sexual language, tales of copulation, and harassment comes from the heterosexual population. And if you are currently serving in the military you are the one who needs to get a grip. Since when does the USAF care about what you care to be exposed to? Act like a professional and get your job done, and the next time someone tells you about their sexual exploits tell them this:
“Excuse me, but it makes me uncomfortable when you talk openly about private sexual activity in a professional military setting, and I would prefer it if you kept your comments to yourself. Furthermore, I believe you should reflect on the fact that you may be detracting from overall mission effectiveness by carrying on in such an unprofessional way.”
See how that works out for you.
Tom in WPAFB on May 29, 2009 at 01.02 pm
The only that differs gays from straight are the way they have sex. Get a grip! It is simply a preferred way of having sex. I am sorry but I don’t care to be exposed to it. I don’t care what gays do but keep it in the closet or between the sheets…..
Chris in Texas on May 29, 2009 at 09.15 am
When I was stationed at Craig AFB in Selma (The Center of the Civil Rights Movement) Alabama in 1972 we brought the first female Air Traffic Controllers to our base. We had a cottage like building for a barracks where we shared a bathroom between two rooms. The four females shared the end two rooms. A big deal (sort of) was made of what turned out to be a real NON-ISSUE. I’m sure we had gay personnel in the same barracks and it was just a NON-ISSUE.
From my work in trying to repeal DADT almost all the stories I hear from those who were discharged under DADT is because someone had to interfere with with the gay servicemenbers (who was trying to abide by the present law) life such has happened in the case of the Lt. Col. What about the “Don’t Tell” part? I know in the case of the Lt. Col. it was a civilian who told but others I know were either set up or told on by a fellow servicemember. All’s fair in love or war if your going to kick out the gay servicemeber the also kick the str8t servicemeber out who in my opinion also violated the law by telling.
Lance in Iraq on May 28, 2009 at 03.17 pm
In a written statement sent to CBS 2 Eyewitness News, the Air Force says:
“The law establishes the basis for separation from the armed forces as conduct, not orientation. The policy reflects the law. No military member is discharged due to his/her sexual orientation.”
Really? To keep things equal, why don’t we just outlaw everyone in the military from having a sex and see how long that law lasts then. It’s easy to issue a law when you don’t have to follow it now isn’t it?
A in San Francisco on May 28, 2009 at 01.28 pm
Jake- You are absolutely correct. I think what Tom is saying is that the military has codified an admission of homosexuality as homosexual conduct. This allows for an admission to be prosecuted for discharge as per the UCMJ.
A in San Francisco on May 28, 2009 at 01.25 pm
Tom and Tommy-
Don’t know if you’re the same person or not, but we have a saying where I’m from:
“You do not know what the @#$% you are talking about.”
You are also painfully oblivious of your military history.
Thanks for playing.
Sean Murray in Idaho on May 28, 2009 at 01.06 pm
You have GOT to be kidding! the “str8” folks in the military are “more gay” then I ever will be…what with GOOD GAME! ..grab a** etc. So, Tom..do your str8 buddies come in and tell you about thier conquests in detail with their g/f or wife?...Why do you think it will be any different! ..Sex talk and such is not something you should be bringing to work anyway. (hmmmm sexual harrassment ring any kind of bells here?) and if you do go into work and talk about your conquests, think, maybe that discusts me…why should I have to be put in that situation. Thats right if you know I am gay then you wont speak like that because you know that you will now be liable for even more words and actions against fellow humans.
Tommy,... I am sure you are probably one of those that would probably oppose alowing woman to pick up tools and fix our many assets that are currently in the inventory for all services, or she might see you and just lust after you because you are of the opposite sex..heaven forbid we give her a gun and you pi** her off during “that stressful time of the month”....or one of those that thinks it would be discusting to see a black person and white person together (OMG would could never let that happen) or perhaps how could we alow our troops mix and mingle with folks of a different color skin in “close quaters” ...oh yeah lets not forget those women… cant let them go to the battle field… and last but last but not least those woman again…oh yeah…but them in close quaters on a sub ...God forbid that ever happens right….they for sure will always come back up all pregnant and such! You see…there was a time when many people thought all of this was as you say “discusting and wrong” It is not..I HOPE you are thinking…that is obsurd, that is not what I said or meant…..what it IS discusting and wrong is that there are people that still want to keep us in the dark ages with their own ignorance and fears of change.
Tommy in Dayton on May 28, 2009 at 07.26 am
Having gay members in the military is a huge distraction. The is especially true for tight knit unit in the Army and USMC.
Forcing people to accept a lifestyle that currently seems pretty disgusting is wrong.
I am OK with the current policy of Don’t ask, Don’t tell. Having gays serve openly would allow many to act flamboyantly causing undue stress in the unit.
Jake in Iraq on May 28, 2009 at 04.46 am
Are you kidding me? Admitting you are gay is not admitting to a sex act. Saying I am gay is letting you know that I part of a great community of people that has a vas impact on this country and society, it states that I have pride in myself, my community and country. Being gay is much, much more than a sex act. It’s that ignorance that is impeding our progress as a community in this country.
Tom in WPAFB on May 27, 2009 at 11.19 pm
I believe in the don’t ask don’t tell. Admiting you are Gay is admiting a sex act. I dont want my co-workers coming in the next morning and telling me about his sex act. So what makes GAYS more special than most.
Sean Murray in Idaho on May 26, 2009 at 06.01 pm
I find it odd that everything we do in the military, ends up doing a “survey” of some sort for it. I am currently enlisted in the military, and I hear MUCH about how this General, and that General are doing studies etc. I have not seen or heard ANYTHING at my level about how G.I. Joe or Jane feels about overturning DADT. When do we get asked how we feel about it all. It is time for CHANGE, and I believe it will happen soon. BUT this childish back and forth of ...tell me what you think, then I’ll tell you what I think” ...or “what do you want to do….OH I want to do what you want to do” SOMEBODY! .....PLEASE step up!!!
I am ready to DIE for my country, all I ask is that you alow me to die with dignety and with my partner by my side.
Sorry for my rambling, but I seem to have no voice otherwise.
Thank you.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com on May 25, 2009 at 01.40 am
This was just more blah blah, “IT’S THE LAW” blah blah “IT WAS ON FIRE WHEN WE SAT DOWN ON IT” blah blah “HE WEALLY WEALLY WILL DOOD IT” blah blah STALL blah blah CHANGE THE SUBJECT blah blah MAKE EXCUSES blah blah REFUSE TO ANSWER blah blah RECYCLE WORN OUT MYTHS blah blahtedy blah. George, would you like to buy a share in the Brooklyn Bridge?
“[Shalikashvili is] certainly entitled to his own personal opinion. ... There are also lots of retired generals and admirals on the other side.”????
TRANSLATION: Obama is letting the old dinosaur tails wag the dog, and we don’t mean Bo.
CANDIDATE Obama could posture and pontificate in 2007 how in 1993,
“the Democratic Party faced a test of leadership, and our party failed that test. We had an opportunity to be leaders on the World stage in eliminating discrimination against gay and lesbian service members…. Instead, we bowed to fear and prejudice. We were told that American soldiers weren’t ready… We were told that our airmen, sailors and Marines would lose their ‘unit cohesion’ ... And so, rather than embracing leadership and principle, we embraced Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
Who’s the Coward-in-Chief now?
All those Yes We Can, Progress, Change, Hope, Obama Pride t-shirts are now just expensive dust rags.
Happy Memorial Day!